Nov
15
Posted (Trey) in News, Ponderings on November-15-2008

 Red Digital Cinema recently released info on the their latest Scarlet/Epic/DSMC camera designs. (Check out the links here and here!) The future line-up they’ve rolled out is absolutely amazing. It’s more feature-rich and functional than what anyone is offering, and still at a price point that’s unbelievably low for a camera with similar specs. At the core of their new system, are the modular imaging-sensor/processing-engine units Red calls a, “Brain.” And all of this is even more amazing when you consider the specs that were just released still have a year or more to mature into something even better.

 

 But damn it Jim, I’m a broke indie filmmaker genius, not a non-broke indie filmmaker genius!

 

 

 Or maybe it’s a broke indie filmmaker non-genius… Anyway, what I’m getting at is despite these latest offerings, I still don’t see the camera system I want near the price I can afford. There’s even conjecture about whether the fixed-lens Scarlet will still be fully shootable out-of-the-box at the originally stated $3,000. But again, these “new” cameras aren’t even shipping yet, so the only thing to do is sit back and wait to see what Red actually does with them. (Which is usually surprise us!)

 

 But back to my point, which revolves entirely around the present fact, I might not be able to afford to go Red. And this is immensely aggravating. For a number of factors, I’m financially forced to consider other options, despite the fact I love the Red camera and modular concept.

 

  My predicament, you see, begins with, “I’m in a bad, insatiable need of a sexy DSLR.” So I perused the usual fare of Nikon and Canon based systems. I have a small preference towards Nikon, but nothing I couldn’t break from. Of course, the $3,000+ high-end bodies looked very enticing, but I was hoping to put that kind of cash towards a Scarlet. The $1,500 price range was the ceiling for any DSLR purchase. This put my budget for both at around $4,500 (spread out across five years) to have an eventual pro worthy motion and still pair I would be happy with for the rest of my life.

 

 You probably think I’m kidding about the “rest of my life” part, but the strategic thinker in me is not joking in the least bit. I’m rather spartan in my wants, and as a matter of fact, I could spend the rest of my life making great movies with my DVX and I would be happy. I’m still seriously considering this. Aside from an appreciation of photography, I want a DSLR for compositing reasons, as it would complete my DVX filmmaking capabilities. (Note: I also have other reasons why I don’t want to continually buy new things forever, but that’s a future-of-economics/capitalism/consumerism/sustainability topic!)

 

 But to get back on track, I was looking for a nice DSLR when models began popping up that could shoot HD video, and even more exciting than that, Red Digital Cinema announced their DSMC. At the time, the DSMC appeared to be a camera line unique from Scarlet, Red One, and Epic. Most people assumed, as did I, it would be a DSLR competitor, with some rockin’ motion camera features, but still something aimed at photographers that would compete with other DSLRs with motion capabilities. On top of the DSMC announcement, there was a general consensus the new Scarlet and Epic were going to be even more modular than the Red One, as deduced from several posts made by Red on RedUser.net.

 

 This sounded like a potential answer to my dilemma of burning DSLR desire. The possibility of getting an all-in-one still and motion package that had upgradable features and components was perfectly in-line the pragmatist that I am. I hoped I could get from Red, a full-frame 35mm (or at least Super 35) DSMC still camera with limited motion capabilities. As time passed, I would just upgrade the frame-rate and compression specs until I had an all out filmmaking machine that would not stop until I was dead! And if I didn’t die, I would keep upgrading until I could use it to create a fully-immersive/3D/holodeck experience!

 

 More importantly, though, I hoped the DSMC would be competitively priced against high-end DSLRs, which I imagined would be around $4,000. Due to a narrow margin of specs and price-point between the could-have-been DSMC and the would-be Scarlet, I figured this was why Scarlet and Epic were being redesigned.

 

 Well, I was wrong, and not, at least for the time being, in my favor either. If Red’s entire camera line were available today, the list below would be my current options with the aforementioned $4,500 budget. (Please note I’ve tried to be conservative in my pricing guesstimations.)

 

 Option 1

  1. I go over my budget and spend an upfront $7,000 for just the S35 “Brain.”
  2. How to afford things like lenses and other Red modules to make the camera even usable, I’ll just let the Feds worry about.
  3. But at least I’ll have a single, upgradable long-term solution to do motion and stills.
  4. Overall cost for my needs would be between $10,000 to $15,000.
  5. The overall cost is mostly a one-time fee.
Option 2
  1. I buy an interchangeable lens  2/3″ Scarlet. 
  2. For a fully operational motion camera, I probably pay $5,000 to $7,000.
  3. I wait and and upgrade to a larger sensor Brain for, at least, an additional $5,000.
  4. Any lenses I bought for the interchangeable lens Scarlet will not work on the new Brain.
  5. I buy new lenses for the new Brain. $3,500.
  6. Total comes to at least $16,000 over several, several years.
Option 3
  1. I buy a fixed-lens Scarlet.
  2. Cost for a fully functional Scarlet will more than likely be at least $3,000, maybe more.
  3. I buy DSLR from Canon or Nikon or Sony or Fuji or…
  4. DSLR cost equals $800-$1,500.
  5. My needs are covered.
  6. I can stay within budget.
Option 4
  1. I wait to see what Nikon, Canon, and Panasonic come out with in terms of a VSLR.
  2. I purchase that instead.
 The most interesting thing about the four options above, is the two most affordable, by a relatively large margin, involve not buying cameras from Red !
 
 Of course, Red is always changing and evolving, and my camera purchasing quagmire could end up being a non-issue. (It eventually has to anyway!) The only hope I have in this for the relatively short term, though, is Red’s history of altering specs, prices, and delivery dates. Red will definitely make some changes, for sure, but not necessarily to the benefit of people in my position. Considering Stu Maschwitz‘ response on his blog and the comments he received, I imagine there’s a lot. (Secretly, I suspect it’s a legion of unknown proportions!) By the way, Stu’s post is excellent, but so are the comments. People are really chiming in with great stuff, so be sure to read everything. 
 
 Anyway, I really want to buy Red, but unbelievably, they might not let me. I would like to clarify, though, I don’t mind shelling out the $15,000+ for a Red. It’s just that I don’t have the cash up front, nor do I want to waste money upgrading to the sensor (and lenses) I wanted to begin with. I also don’t want to wait 3 to 6 years for Moore to ride in with his Law-men.
 
 So basically, here I am, wanting to give Red Digital Cinema, run and owned by a billionaire, lots of my hard earned cash, but at the moment, they have stated no plans to take it. There’s something really screwed up with that!
 
 Now, a solution to really make Red a camera company for everyone, could to the split the sensor/engine Brain unit in half. Buy the sensor you want, and upgrade the engine that handles the compression, frame-rate, etc. A 3K VistaVision sensor attached to a DSLR engine for $3,500 would be great. I could then buy other motion engines to use with my full-frame sensor. Notice I didn’t say upgrade. Upgrade means to get something, as well as get-rid of something. I would integrate the use all my engines and would never have to replace anything. True, you can do this with Red’s current line-up, but it doesn’t appear to be cost-effective enough to really be useful. And that brings up the big money questions again. Even if Red offered decoupled sensors and engines, would they be able to do it for less than the currently announced price structure? What if it was more?
 
 The last thing I want to talk about in this rather long post (Sorry…) is another unnerving possibility that could plague many like me who might hold out for what DSLR makers are going to come up with. Currently, Red’s future cameras are being marketed in such a way that is not competing with the DSLR crowd. If the only full-frame VSLR equivalent from Red costs over $12,000, there is no competition to push Canon/Nikon into developing a viable movie camera into their DSLRs. At least, there’s not a lot of incentive to do it for much under a $12,000 sticker price. In a way, if Red’s pricing stands, a status quo is maintained. That being the now and near future absence of a full-frame cinema camera (with or without a still function) for around $3,000 to $7,000. (Maybe Panasonic will come to the rescue here!)
 
 But man oh man, these are some exciting times! Everyday can bring something new and different. Thanks to Red Digital Cinema and other DIYers large and small, things are changing for the better, and I can’t wait to find out what my next camera’s going to be. It’s going to be freakin’ amazing, no matter what it is!
 Till next time… if we’re lucky. 

Comments:
Trey on November 15th, 2008 at 3:07 am #

This constitutes as my post for the “19th” of this month. I didn’t want to wait on it. I hate wait.

Ryan on November 15th, 2008 at 8:30 am #

Yeah, I have to agree with Stu over on Prolost (prolost.blogspot.com) that the killer product would be a full frame 35mm sensor at 2K. Instead the RED FF35 “brain” shoots 6K and costs $9,500 more. Why RED? Why?

Ryan on November 15th, 2008 at 8:39 am #

Oh, and as for your choices of Nikon or Canon DSLRs in the near-term … I’d say wait for at least another generation.
The Nikon shoots only 30 frames (not 29.97) and has no mic input (XLR or miniplug). The Canon is better with miniplug mic input, and shoots 24 (or 23.976) fps at 1080p. However, Vincent LaForet described his technique for making “Reverie” (http://www.vincentlaforet.com/) as including an annoying song-and-dance that I have to do with my HV30 to get selectable exposure control. It’s not a show-stopper (as it were) but it’s painful enough to make me appreciate the full manual controls of your DVX-100s.

Trey on November 15th, 2008 at 11:54 am #

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I just want to stick with my DVX. Since I’m not seeking theatrical distribution, I don’t see why not. And even if something was released to the theaters, it will still hold up well enough, as evidenced by several other movies that have done so.
All I’m really interested in with a new cinema cam is greater dynamic range and better compression. I wish the Andromeda mod hadn’t fallen into a black hole.
But I do need a DSLR, and if Nikon or Canon come out with one that shoots 24fps, then that’s just icing on the cake!
Oh well. At least Red gets the modularity thing. I still have hope they’ll eventually build our dream machine.

Stacy on November 17th, 2008 at 10:51 am #

…And this is why I have no commenting powers.

Trey on November 21st, 2008 at 9:36 pm #

But you do have the power of… The Schwartz!

Stacy on December 7th, 2008 at 12:46 am #

Gosh, post already!

Trey on December 7th, 2008 at 1:46 am #

You post something already! Oh wait… Anyway as I was saying, I have an idea for my next post, so I’ll get right on it.

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